Why HD-DVD / Blue-ray Combo Players Are A Bad Idea

Posted on December 21, 2006 - 7:15am

Ars Technicha is reporting that rumors of a hybrid HD DVD/Blu-ray player have been popping up in various places. From what I've read elsewhere, this is a development that is highly anticipated by most people. I personally think it's a potential disaster.

The easiest way to describe the format battle going on right now is the old VHS vs. Beta parable. As we all know, VHS prevailed, a bunch of people were stuck with useless players, the home video market boomed and the rest - history. Fast forward to today - lots of speculation on which of the two formats will prevail.

A hybrid player would however, change the game. They are just rumors as of right now but it's almost guaranteed that they will eventually show up on store shelves. Even if the store shelves happen to be some shady Japanese porn/convenience store.

Suckers

Neither format would necessarily need to prevail if a hybrid player was readily available. The two could peacefully coexist on the shelves of your entertainment system. And if two formats could coexist while still being profitable, why not three? Why shouldn't Nintendo's next console use their own proprietary format disc? I would call it Wii-VD.

Why then couldn't the major movie studios develop their own formats too? Each could have unique copy protection systems and they could make a bundle licensing their format to the companies making the players and smaller studios. We could end up with ten to fifteen different formats for high-def discs. The terrible downside would be the ten to fifteen players on the store shelves plus the handful of universal players that play all or most of the formats. If such a scenario seems far-fetched, look at the digital audio formats available (mp3, aif, au, wma, wav, flac, ogg, vqf, etc.) and all of the media players. Now look at which players play which formats(s). Not so far-fetched.

Formats would quietly disappear, some would consolidate and new ones would emerge. The capabilities of the home player would constantly need to be expanded and adapted to the format market. The shelf life of your player would be no more than 2 years. Of course the player manufacturers would have no complaints.

The New Hardware Wars?

The entertainment industry would be putting so much focus and capital into developing proprietary formats there would be less attention given to actually advancing the technology. Money that could be spent on newer concepts like Holographic Versatile Discs (HVD - 1 TB of data with a transfer rate of 1 Gbit/s) would be squandered by lateral development.

If anyone were to profit from a situation like this it would be the movie theaters. Surely they would see a rebounding effect when people can't/won't keep up with the newest formats.

In conclusion, someone needs to pick a prevailing format and soon. The public could pick but things seem pretty divided right now. The format backers could pick but a Sony/Microsoft agreement is a little unlikely. Who then? The FCC? Would I support government involvement in my home theater's future? I don't know but if anyone's going to make my console's resale value drop, I would rather blame it on the government - it's just easier.

Slyck News' Interview with muslix64 developer of BackupHDDVD

UPDATE 01-08-08: Warner Brothers has confirmed that they will be going with Blue-Ray exclusively this May.

UPDATE 02-08:in February, 2008, Toshiba abandoned the format, announcing it would no longer develop or manufacture HD DVD players. Anyone who bought one or a HD DVD player gambled and lost. This post is no longer relevant.

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Comments

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on December 21, 2006 - 11:06am.

When DVD came out some people were using laser discs and VCDs to watch videos as time went on DVD players suppored other formats like VCDs. Also when dvd writing came around there were two formats that still exist today dvd+r and dvd-r it wasn't long before people adopted the combo burner that could burn either format. I don't see how this is much different. What having a combo player would do is allow the consumer to watch either disc in their drive and not worry about it, and let the manufacturers duke it out or just have 2 formats. This does not damage anything it may still force one to still provail over the other in the end if people buy more hd-dvd or blue ray dvds because of quality. This does not mean that people are going to come out with a plethra of different formats just because someone might make a combo player, first of all it would have to be a standard that everyone would be able to jump on. It would have to compete with blueray and hd-dvd, and I think that both habe been in development for years, by the time some no-name company came out with a new format it might be time for it or it would be out of date. Your idea that nintendo would use their own propriatery CD drive or what ever is not new. The Dreamcast used GD-ROMs and the gamecube used mini dvds in their consoles, the use of GD-ROMs to my knowlege was only a dreamcast thing. This didn't sound disaster for anyone, know why? Because consoles were not originally ment for video play back they were ment for gamming. These companies do not make videos. The people you would have to worry about is sony who has a pictures studio, oh wait they made blue ray, so your future has already come and no one is running. You just seem more upset that your new console will not play both formats. If it had a combo player would you complain?

Submitted by Jason on December 21, 2006 - 12:23pm.

I won't debate the issue too far - it's only one possible outcome.

Honestly, I haven't invested a dime in either technology - including a new console. I think I have a fairly objective view of the situation.

VCDs have a much smaller storage size and Laser discs were huge and awkward. Blue-ray and HD-DVD are almost identical. DVD+r and DVD-r are a good example but they don't affect the commercial DVD (movie) market - it's not something to consider when buying DVD movies.

I don't think anyone will pick one over the other because of quality - the quality is almost identical.

It doesn't matter wether or not the consoles play videos, hi-def disc players are dropping in price and headed for homes everywhere. If Sony was the only company to own a movie studio, this wouldn't be an issue. Movie studios see pirating as a money siphon and will foam at the mouth at the idea of their own copy protection (Blue-ray and HD-DVD both have their own different copy protections).

Submitted by Ken (not verified) on January 23, 2007 - 3:54pm.

I agree that dual format players are a bad idea, but for slightly different reasons. Sure, a plethora of formats would be a pain (great example with the audio market by the way). But my biggest gripe, is the cost of having TWO major formats. If we have two formats (somewhat) peacefully coexisting, that lowers the total output of media for both formats. Quantity almost always means lower prices for the consumer. Well, now we're dividing the savings in half. That in turn, means an even slower adoption rate. Which means prices will take even longer to fall... Secondly, let's look at how "HD" has hurt itself. I think a large factor in HD taking so long to adopt was the mass confusion it brought. Consumers were afraid of all the buzz words: 1080i, 1080p, 720p, 480p, hdmi, hdcp, component vs composite, digital vs analog, plasma, lcd, dlp, crt, rear-projection, etc. The list goes on and on. The average consumer just wants to watch their movies and their tv. They didn't want to have a PHD in order to buy a TV. I really believe that was a large factor in HD's slow adoption. Now, with the HD confusion still alive and well, now we're mixing two more formats: Blue-Ray and HD-DVD. Neither is a *clear* winner (I have my own opinions), and so even more consumers will be left confused and intimidated. I think many consumers will continue to stay with their DVD player because they feel it's simple, and it works. Until this mess is sorted out, we (the consumers) will continue to lose out and be faced with bloated prices.

Submitted by vrtualme on December 21, 2006 - 8:48pm.

i've never even heard of blue-ray?

Submitted by Jason on December 22, 2006 - 6:12am.

The name Blu-ray is derived from the blue-violet laser used to read and write this type of disc. Because of this shorter wavelength (405 nm), substantially more data can be stored on a Blu-ray Disc than on the common DVD format, which uses a red, 650 nm laser. In comparison to HD DVD, which also uses a blue laser, Blu-ray Disc has more information capacity per layer (currently 25 GB, but test media is up to 33 GB). Several manufacturers have released 50 GB recordable BDs and rewritable discs.[1]. All supporting studios have either already released or have announced release of movies on 50GB discs.

The Blu-ray Disc is a similar format to PDD, another optical disc format developed by Sony (which has been available since 2004) but offering higher data transfer speeds. PDD was not intended for home video use and was aimed at business data archiving and backup, although currently it is gaining popularity as an HD video format medium. The UDO format is aimed at similar purposes. Blu-ray is currently embroiled in a bitter format war against the HD DVD disc.

Submitted by vrtualme on December 27, 2006 - 10:39am.

it's all "geek" to me :)

Submitted by InShaneee on December 25, 2006 - 10:49pm.

I found this very interesting. I was honestly welcoming the new combo players, but this really put a new spin on it for me.

Of course, I see another facet to the debate that I think needs considering: does the market even want a new format now? Honestly, I'm happy with DVDs, and have no desire to start 'converting' my collection; I saw my parents go through that with VHS, and I think if I stand isn't taken now, this could be a regular thing. The fact is, at the moment, both sides are losing badly to consumer apathy. Is this temporary?

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on December 26, 2006 - 8:04am.

As usual, you, inhabitants of the United States of America, forget that there are about 200 more countries in the world. Why should the FCC have to say anything on video formats that will be used all over the world? And why should any company listen to the FCC to create a new format? Most of the companies that make electronic equipment are not from the USA, so a United States government agency can not tell them what to do. Yes, it can set some standards to which that equipment must adhere, but so can the European Union (and each of the countries that form it, individually), Japan, China and every country in the world, and we could end up with some 200 different formats, which would be even worse than to let them do whatever they want. That said, I really think they should agree in some standard, like they did for the Audio CD. But if someone has to set a standard, it should be done by an international agency, like ISO, IEEE, or someone like that. Anyway, the market will decide who wins. It already did it with the VHS/Beta and the CD/MiniDISC, and both times Sony lost. But they still try to go their own way...

Submitted by William Higinbotham (not verified) on January 20, 2007 - 9:26pm.

Good feedback from all. I am sticking with the older format recorders for now for I am on the cheap. This is why VHS won. The units and media for it was cheaper. I may be wrong but when it comes to HD and Blue ray, the units vary some but not as much as beta/vhs in the old days. Because of this, I feel that the industries that are trying to set the standards for their oun recording formats are only huting their industry in the end. The industry got a black eye with + and - dvd formats and really did not take off till both became standard in the recorders/players. How many units would have everyone purchased by now had the companies compromised and designed the best of all the technologies and split the royalties equally. Too many engineers and executives with fat egos. I guess I am too old anyway and not spoiled like the younger generation that have all these large screen HD boob-tubes. Its like I still listen to some music stations on AM with all that static and loving it. Thank You Billy

Submitted by Viking (not verified) on January 24, 2007 - 6:34pm.

I think you started with the idea of a hybrid player and then started jumping to too many conclusions. Sure, another "HD" format could rear it's ugly head. It won't matter. It looks to me like HD-DVD and Blu-ray are the only 2 significant formats. Consumers only want one format. Major studios know that they can't each have their own format because they would be limiting their target audience. So efforts are going to be made to simplify playback capabilities as quickly as possible into one device - the hybrid player. No one format is going to win; this is going to end up exactly like the DVD+R/DVD-R fiasco. I know that it is a different market, but logically when major studios are divided on formats, the winner is the maker of a multi-format player. Set-top boxes are meaningless to me as I will not be into the higher-resolution movies until I can get HD-DVD and Blu-ray drives (or one combo drive) for my home theater PC. With VGA and HDMI on all HDTV's and the popularity of a wireless mouse nothing else makes sense to me but using my computer to run everything in my living room. I rip all my purchased DVD's onto my hard drive so I can select movies with ease. Personally I think optical formats are good as a backup medium but with broadband speeds increasing and hard drives and flash memory advancing as they are we should be paying for and downloading these 20-30 GB movies, not getting them on a disc.

Submitted by Peter (not verified) on May 16, 2007 - 7:12am.

HD's take up is slow because of the cost, in the uk to get HD you have to spend huge amounts on a HDTV, them buy a sky connection with a Â£10 charge for the HD channels plus a min of Â£15 on the rest, or buy a HD-DVD player or Blu ray player which are genrally in excess of Â£400. Many are happy with current levels of quality. Also people tend to confuse quality anyway. Digital most people associate with better quality, it isn't it's better quality for a given bandwidth/ amount of data, many of the freeview channels are poorer quality than their analogue equvilients because companies decided to squeeze more channels into the same space. Combined players are not the enemy. Plus there is at least 1 format that are far superior to both of them which if it doesn't get here b4 the end of the format war will be in time to pick off the winner.

Submitted by Mister Smith (not verified) on June 7, 2007 - 1:24pm.

All this is cool to spark dialogue, but the essential arguments still remain: Which format is better and by better, I think most consumers mean looks good on my tv and costs the least. The problem is that if BD wins this "war" it gives Sony and their cronies an opportunity to control pricing and ultimately the consumer will pay more. The fact that they are unwilling to cooperate with HD is an indicator that they want market leverage. HD-DVD is cheaper and utilizes the same manufacturing infrastructure that dvd uses which allows the research into blue laser technology to continue (if necessary) while allowing the consumer to benefit from the technology at the lowest possible price. The argument of 1080i vs 1080p means nothing since the majority of people screaming blu ray don't even have a monitor capable of displaying 1080p in the real world. Having a combo player doesn't affect this significantly, but for the convenience of using only one set of inputs and maybe eliminating one remote from my collection!

Submitted by fire damage restoration (not verified) on April 11, 2008 - 10:40am.

For that price I would expect it to play every feature of every type of disc. Including but not limited to DVD-Audio, SACD Audio, DIVX, DTS 96/24 and every other current type of disc. In fact I would expect it to do that for half that price.

Submitted by Charisma Training (not verified) on April 14, 2008 - 1:56pm.

I guess I am too old anyway and not spoiled like the younger generation that have all these large screen HD boob-tubes. Its like I still listen to some music stations on AM with all that static and loving it. - thats my full opinion.

Submitted by Paruresis (not verified) on May 2, 2008 - 10:15am.

I think in less than 3 years it will be standard, to play all these formats in one player. At the time, when more and more Movies are on blueray, it will be inevitable.